Drew is life Drew is loveBoard

Korghveghnjghette wrote:

Well it might be both as you could exploit the fourth and fifth dimensions physical properties for storage of massive arsenals. Or you could just leave your WMDs in those dimensions and destroy your portal or other inter dimensional gate way which would be disarmament.

You speak as an uninitiated. Our question was philosophical, not legal. We urge you to question your own authority to assess the legality of dimensions in which you have not been initiated. To question authority is to acquire it, as long as you ask the right questions.

The fourth dimension is time. Storing WMD in time, means that it is either there for the future, or there in the past. If disarmament is only valid in the present, that leaves a loophole the size of a meteorite crater in the purpose of outlawing the weapons.

The fifth dimension is the one where we erase the borders between the self and the non-self. This means that the weapons would be stored in a property that is non-entitarian to its definition. In layman´s terms: I become the WMD and the WMD become me. As I am not a WMD, this means that the WMD is no longer there. But as the WMD are me, the weapons are present through me - even though I am absent through the weapons.

Storing the weapons in time or in cognition would not make them inaccessable, or inoperable. It would merely remove them from the first three dimensions. The arsenal would still be there - it just wouldnt be here-with-you...

It´s like the brains we have: we have evolved to put most of our skulls and most of our brains out of the three first dimensions. (See our flag for a simplified picture of the process.) It saves us a lot of effort, not to have to carry all that biomass around all the time. But we still have access to those thoughts we think in the fourth and fifth dimensions, and we use those four- and five-dimensional brains in constant connection with our existing brain and our two existing ganglias.

Do you understand what we are trying to explain?

WMD are not just weapons for using. In fact, they are most effective if you merely HAVE them. They serve as a deterrent - and therefore, they must be distributed, even to private parties.

We can hardly guarantee the safety of spacefaring individuals, unless our enemies and competitors know that any one of these dauntless travellers MAY have weapons that can blast them out of existence.

And of course, it doesn´t hurt that those aforementioned enemies and competitors is then dependent on our goodwill to make and uphold laws that limit the sale of such weaponry to only responsible individuals. That gives us a diplomatic advantage.

Spectral Synthoids wrote:

If we store the WMD in the fourth or fifth dimension, would that count as a disarmament or as an arsenal?

The other question is: if destruction is limited in time and space, and you store destructive instruments in a dimension where these limitations are not in effect,

a) does that mean that the destruction has already happened - the weapons exist no more than weapons that have been used - but because they did not cause destruction in the present or past perfect, the destruction they will have brought is not a crime that can be laid against you, even when the use / sale of these weapons is illegalised?
b) that the destruction is continuously happening, but in a way that can only manifest itself if they are brought out of the fourth and fifth dimension, making them Schrödinger´s WMD?
c) that the choice to bring them out of these dimensions is the act that equals to the use or sale of these items, because a sale is essentially the transfer of a (n) (il-)legal commodity in exchange of a(n) (im-)material compensation?
d) but if the WMD are brought out of storage in detonated form, would skipping the moment of their detonation also skip the legal liability?
e) what is the essence, the quintessence, the function of WMD that we are trying to outlaw or not? If it is Death - the mere end of life or existence in the first three dimensions - then we should circumscribe their use in the fourth dimension and onward, by the effect(s) it has (had) in the first three.
f) if we accept that this is about limiting the fourth dimension onward by the first three, do we then also make the law based on relative rather than absolute definition? If the effect is measurable by the statement of someone limited to three dimensions, we should accept that measure over the logic that any effect in the first three dimensions is limited in time and space, and therefore absolutely irreliable.

I think we just went through the looking glass, into a world of illogical consequences of logical thought. Great stuff. Lewis Carroll would be proud of us.

Spectral Synthoids wrote:

You speak as an uninitiated. Our question was philosophical, not legal. We urge you to question your own authority to assess the legality of dimensions in which you have not been initiated. To question authority is to acquire it, as long as you ask the right questions.

The fourth dimension is time. Storing WMD in time, means that it is either there for the future, or there in the past. If disarmament is only valid in the present, that leaves a loophole the size of a meteorite crater in the purpose of outlawing the weapons.

The fifth dimension is the one where we erase the borders between the self and the non-self. This means that the weapons would be stored in a property that is non-entitarian to its definition. In layman´s terms: I become the WMD and the WMD become me. As I am not a WMD, this means that the WMD is no longer there. But as the WMD are me, the weapons are present through me - even though I am absent through the weapons.

Storing the weapons in time or in cognition would not make them inaccessable, or inoperable. It would merely remove them from the first three dimensions. The arsenal would still be there - it just wouldnt be here-with-you...

It´s like the brains we have: we have evolved to put most of our skulls and most of our brains out of the three first dimensions. (See our flag for a simplified picture of the process.) It saves us a lot of effort, not to have to carry all that biomass around all the time. But we still have access to those thoughts we think in the fourth and fifth dimensions, and we use those four- and five-dimensional brains in constant connection with our existing brain and our two existing ganglias.

Do you understand what we are trying to explain?

Oh sorry i understand now. Wow I am an idiot. Well if the the question is philosophical I have no answer to it. I though the fifth and fourth dimensions were merely some thing created by dimensional sorting hats and not actually the real fifth and fourth dimensions which humans have projected and understood as realm higher and more impossible for three dimensional creatures to survive in.

And no I did not mean to assess the legality of these dimensions without acquiring true authority. And we strongly urge to remember that no matter how much authority you accumulate you will still be a dot in the grand universe. That statement is true for everyone and thus even Korghveghnjghette is subject to the pain that it is infinitesimally irrelevant.

Deep Dark Dust Dimensions can I ask you why you didn’t choose a side in the soon to end poll. To my knowledge it appears you voted No idea

Is it because someone so revered by all of drew is love drew is life is supposed to to be neutral in this situation to prevent a large amount of people flocking to an option.

Or is it that you simply don’t know.

Or are you afraid of the the many arguments that will spark due to your opinion.

I would like to know.

Korghveghnjghette,

It´s merely that questions have been raised about the applicability of WMD proscription in dimensions other than the three usual ones. That calls into question all the deeper dimensions of which I consist. While those questions remain, I seriously don´t know. Because I don´t know if and how any of the other four answers would affect me (IC).

Deep Dark Dust Dimensions wrote:

Korghveghnjghette,

It´s merely that questions have been raised about the applicability of WMD proscription in dimensions other than the three usual ones. That calls into question all the deeper dimensions of which I consist. While those questions remain, I seriously don´t know. Because I don´t know if and how any of the other four answers would affect me (IC).

Ok so you actually dont know

Kosmema wrote:

Great idea.

Just one twist: I think you are causing the floods.

Those century-long seasons are the times when our mineral-based species slowly grows into patron dieties of the corbon-based nations´ polities. But during our puppal stage, you infect our puppas, and sometimes instead of a patron diety, a destructive Crinornithan emerges.

As these Pentaradial Meteosympaths need water to mate, they will start drawing in more and more water. They already do this while eating us in the puppa, which is why the drought turns to moderate climate in the first place.

Next thing you know, the hallucinavian "necks" are released, so they can fly out to infect new puppas of ours.

There probably are less sentient species of pentaradial meteosympaths on land and sea as well? Perhaps you could think up a list?

There probably are more mineral-based life-forms too, on that planet. Or maybe we are from one of the moons? We´ll think up something.

---PROPOSAL---

All four stages are foudn contemporaneous, just in different quarters of the world.

1.
Normal coastline

Mostly Moderate climate

Kosmematans emerge from their eggs as Penatic Larvae. They start acting as local patron deties, although their powers are still weak. They are vulnerable, and can be hunted by creatures coming in from the sea. Local populations still need to protect them. The sea, thank goodness, is retreating.

Crinornithans are gestating more and more, pumping their offspring into their hallucinavian extensions. They are very hungry - obviously - especially the females (unless all are hermaphrodites).

2.
Coastlines are jumping out far and wide

Climate mostly dry, deserts emerge.

Kosmematans retreat into their puppae. Patron deity functions are suspended, Local populations may still worship them, praying for an even stronger patron to re-emerge.

Crinornithans hallucinavian extensions are flying around, trying to infect the puppae with their own eggs.

3.

The sea starts coming back, especially in areas where crinornithans have been successful at infecting the eggs.

Climate mostly moderate again

Kosmematans re-emerge from their puppae, as full adults now and stronger than ever. Don´t need protection anymore, but will occasionally move around to look for mates.

Crinornithans also emerge from the puppae, wreaking havoc whereever they do - and probably opening marshy chasms in their immediate environment.

4.
Flooding everywhere; coastlines horrendously reduced.

Very wet climate.

Kosmematans are developing in their eggs, which are buried - sometimes - on the sea floor.
Crinornithans are having their mating season. This is sometimes referred to as their Siren stage, as only the pretty bird heads stick above the water.

I have developed a flag that can also serve as a map for this purpose.

Maybe all those who want to be part of this three-species world with rapidly changing coastlines can all have a variety of this map-flag - so we can identify each other?

I can give you your approximate position on the map in a bright colour - like I did with muself.

Question though: how long would each of the stages above.

A) If they last like 500 years, then memories of any other stage will disappear from living memory. Disadvantage: not very dynamic.

B) If they last like 5 years, then development of cultures / empires will be very difficult: too much dynamic.

C) If they last about 20 years, the oldest members of society will see the coast of the days of their youth return at the end of their lives.

D) If they last about 40 / 50 years each, archives will be needed to anticipate what will happen - especially variations in the cycle (heavy versus light flooding, extreme versus normal drought, etc).

Perhaps Korghveghnjghette could do a poll on what everybody thinks is the best time for the life and climate cycles?

Moule wrote:

I have developed a flag that can also serve as a map for this purpose.

Maybe all those who want to be part of this three-species world with rapidly changing coastlines can all have a variety of this map-flag - so we can identify each other?

I can give you your approximate position on the map in a bright colour - like I did with muself.

Question though: how long would each of the stages above.

A) If they last like 500 years, then memories of any other stage will disappear from living memory. Disadvantage: not very dynamic.

B) If they last like 5 years, then development of cultures / empires will be very difficult: too much dynamic.

C) If they last about 20 years, the oldest members of society will see the coast of the days of their youth return at the end of their lives.

D) If they last about 40 / 50 years each, archives will be needed to anticipate what will happen - especially variations in the cycle (heavy versus light flooding, extreme versus normal drought, etc).

Perhaps Korghveghnjghette could do a poll on what everybody thinks is the best time for the life and climate cycles?

Not going to do any new polls soon but great idea.

I´d like to suggest 40 years - has a nice Biblical ring to it.

Of course, there´d be a margin of three to five years either way?

Hebra wrote:

I´d like to suggest 40 years - has a nice Biblical ring to it.

Of course, there´d be a margin of three to five years either way?

It leaves room for

"My grandfather told me, when he was as old as I am now, that in the days of his youth, there was ..."

"Oh come on, are we really going to believe an old wive´s tale? Didn´t the emperor´s messengers tell us..."

"What would the emperor know? His grandfather never told him things, did he?"

But maybe the phases need to be longer.

It takes about two generations for a nation to adjust to changed circumstances. (See also: why Gen Z is more activist than the millennials.)

And most of the changing coastlines would be gradual shifts, some of them are likely involving more than one level. (From regular coastline to heavy drought is two levels.)

Now if every level change takes about 20-25 years (abrupt and sudden multiple level changes included), that would push every phase to 25-50 years.

But if we stretch that to about 70 years, there will be no living memory of the last flood in the time of the new one. Only archives.

Need more dynamic? Put it in a dimension where the same visitors can pop in centuries apart.

(Don´t reduced the dramatic for the sake of wanting lots of shifting coastlines.)

Ohh... that´s intriguing:

what if one day in Bivalva is 24 Earth days - and therefore 10 years in Bivalva is 240 years on Earth?

Scallope wrote:

But if we stretch that to about 70 years, there will be no living memory of the last flood in the time of the new one. Only archives.

Need more dynamic? Put it in a dimension where the same visitors can pop in centuries apart.

(Don´t reduced the dramatic for the sake of wanting lots of shifting coastlines.)

Fungiel wrote:

Ohh... that´s intriguing:

what if one day in Bivalva is 24 Earth days - and therefore 10 years in Bivalva is 240 years on Earth?

YES YES YES - This would put outside visitors in a position to issue prophetic warnings. But will anyone listen to them?

AND

Even though the people on the planet have some influence over their ecology (by protecting their Kosmema gods and by killing us (both prevent excessive flooding in some way), they would need VERY good archives, or outside visitor prophetic warnings, to figure out the connection.

Needed:
One world-spanning empire/ trade network, lasting at least one full cycle (280 years)
Lots of enquiring minds in that empire / network to study the effects of the changing water levels in various parts of the world - as well as study what happens to the gods before and after the levels change.
Probably another half-cycle (at least) to affirm that the hypothesis was correct, and yet another cycle to start preparing for it the right way.

They´d be 700 years down the line before they figure out a protocol to protect their world.
By which times the empire has probably be overrun by barbarians seeking refuge from a part of the world that has been flooded and invaded by our species (which would interrupt trade networks over water in SO MANY ways).

This is going to be so much fun!

And grandfather can just remember how the family used to uproot itself last time there were rising water levels. - And now the family will have to do so again - EVEN WHEN THE EMPEROR WANTS THE FARMERS TO STAY WHERE THEY ARE.

Rising levels: 45 - 70 years ago.

New rising levels: now.

Crinornis and Kosmema,

How about I create a flag for you where one has a world with maximum flood in all quarters (the ideal world according to Crinornis, and one gets maximum landmass in all quarters (the ideal world according to Kosmema?

KOSMEMA´s current flag is by far the best I have created so far - I think we can take this one further...

Moule Crinornis Kosmema Scallope Whelkaria Hebra and anyone else on the planet that has very long seasons who is the emperor and why is he spreading propaganda that there is only one season. Also why has the emperors grandpa never told him anything.

I suspect, Korghveghnjghette, that this is as yet

Generic Emperor of as yet undifined empire.
And his generic grandpa probably generically died before he could talk to his grandson?

Generic Emperor may feel that getting the harvest in is more important than evacuating the harvesters. Once half his empire starts being flooded, he´ll need plenty of resources for his army (or for the doubtlessly numerous refugees).

The emperor would be the first in hundreds of years to face the flood. He rightly suspects that the social unrest will desintegrate his empire. His throne has never been shakier. The question is not whether he will have to give up some parts of his power and territory, but which, and when. And the farmers rightly abandon him, because he chose to treat them as expendable.

- Which will mean parts of the army cannot be provisioned anymore => rebellions!

- Which means that overflowing urban centres at the higher grounds can no longer be provisioned => starvation, civil war!

Generic Emperor is trying to get a few extra resources in, buy himself time, stack up for when the unrest explodes.
----------------

All told through the eyes of a small farming community family.

-------------

I´d read it!

Moule wrote:

Crinornis and Kosmema,

How about I create a flag for you where one has a world with maximum flood in all quarters (the ideal world according to Crinornis, and one gets maximum landmass in all quarters (the ideal world according to Kosmema?

KOSMEMA´s current flag is by far the best I have created so far - I think we can take this one further...

Could be interesting.
And easier to get than a drawing of a seas lily body with Hallucigenia-like paired bird heads on top.

Question though: can we add to the map some kind of symbol for the areas that my Crinornithians have rendered uninhabitable? Maybe just some red dots?

Hey Cosmoths!

Leave my fodder out of this! We take no part of that planet! Haha.

(I´d read it too, though!)

Question:

If Moule and the other nations curate their Kosmema gods, is that

a) because their species have evolved to do so as part of a symbiosis (which suggest this is their species´ home planet, and that maybe some civilisations have left for space and ... surely at some point someone would have used satelited to figure out how this interconnect?)
b) because they landed on the planet, and quickly adapted to live with the meteosympathy that rehapes the planet all the time (which begs for two explanations: how has no-one used satelites befoe landing on that planet to figure out how things interconnect, and why is everybody now planet-bound?)

How long have these guys been on that planet?

Moule how many seasons are there, if they are super long you would expect fewer seasons that earth but if each of these seasons are represented by every nation on that planet there must be a lot.

Ore-Igin wrote:

Question:

If Moule and the other nations curate their Kosmema gods, is that

a) because their species have evolved to do so as part of a symbiosis (which suggest this is their species´ home planet, and that maybe some civilisations have left for space and ... surely at some point someone would have used satelited to figure out how this interconnect?)
b) because they landed on the planet, and quickly adapted to live with the meteosympathy that rehapes the planet all the time (which begs for two explanations: how has no-one used satelites befoe landing on that planet to figure out how things interconnect, and why is everybody now planet-bound?)

How long have these guys been on that planet?

VERY good question.

Given than one year on this planet is 24 years on Earth, I suspect that we ARE space-farers who got lost, and crashed on the planet, then split into various factions?

We probably could establish some connecting to a nation that is still residing in space?

- a human mission that had mutiny on board, split into two factions that crashed themselves back to the Iron Age, then these precursor civilisations split up into even more nations over planet-related stuff and egos and whatnot?

- a human mission that after it crashed on the planet was culturally adjusted by varions Kosmema gods (who saw them as interesting playthings from space), at which point the symbiosis was established, but also the planet´s humanity started splitting up because of interactions with different Kosmematans?

- Same as above, but non-human. Related to the slug nations, maybe? Or to Epiploa?

- A failed grand project by a precursor of Spectral Synthoids could maybe work?

- Humans that were hybridised by something on the planet...

From the point of view of someone on Earth, we are incredibly fast at recovering from a reset to the Iron Age (or Stone Age? Who knows?) because we do 24 years in 365 days.

Kosmema probably calls this planet after itself (it´s name means gem in Greek)

But Crinornis probably has a different name for it. Maybe Blastos, which is Greek for bud, while the blastoidea were a bud-like class of animals related to sea lilies?

So what we call this planet should say a lot of how we view it. 4D-132546 may have been its original name in the space mission archives, but as it came closer?

New Pangaia?
Baby Earth?
Little Paradise?
Meteon?
Unique?
Conchtar-3 (where we name it after its sun - hereby dubbed Conchtar - and its position among the planets orbiting that sun)