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via The South Pacific

The Democratic States of Anatasha

Repeal "Voting Equality for Freed Inmates"

For

While some criminals and those that have gone to prison might have done horrible acts, most of the criminals are generally not that bad. Just like what Cocao has said, many of these criminals will serve long times in prison so that they will turn into better person and turn into a new leaf instead. Therefore, I believe that they should have the right just like any other individuals to be able to vote in the democratic process.

via The South Pacific

The King of the Ferns of Doge Land

Repeal "Voting Equality for Freed Inmates"

Against

The quality of proposals has taken a huge drop lately. Yeah no, just because some crap proposal hit the voting floor in the SC (and got stomped accordingly) doesn't mean you can make some 2-liner repeal and expect it to pass.

I need more than one reason, or maybe I'm just bored and want to see some proposal die on the voting floor

via The South Pacific

The Mighty Foundation of Concrete Slab

Repeal "Voting Equality for Freed Inmates"

For

There seems to be a general misunderstanding among the current votes cast by my region mates.
Anatasha: This proposal's purpose is to replace this resolution with legislation that is pretty much identical, but will make it illegal to prevent incarcerated individuals from voting. If your stance is that criminals should be allowed to vote, you should be voting For.
Doge Land: Just because a proposal is short does not mead it is bad. I personally find its argument to be quite compelling. :P

Anyway, I agree that prisoners should have the right to vote, and Article 3 of the target resolution could prevent them from having this right. Thus, the delegation from Concrete Slab is pleased to cast a For vote.

via The South Pacific

The Valkyrian Republic of Qvait

Repeal "Voting Equality for Freed Inmates"

For

via The South Pacific

The Public Liability CorpoNation of Corporatist Union

This is The Self-Administrative City of Tinhampton, the author of Repeal "Voting Equality for Freed Inmates."

Beepee wrote:...I would vote against...

Why?

Cocao wrote:I Have Done Some Thinking,Some Research And Decided That Former Criminals(Not Killers) Reserve The Rights To Any Other Normal Persons.They Have Gave Up Their Time Of Life To Leave The Prison In Order For Them To Become A Normal Civilian Like Others,And Violents One...Well,They Gave Their Entire Life To The Prison.(This Is My Opinion So Please Don't Get Mad)

GA#419 allows almost all "Former Criminals," including "Killers," to vote in elections. I have a replacement that would expand the right to vote to all individuals who have been imprisoned for any reason at any point.

Anatasha wrote:[Criminals] should have the right just like any other individuals to be able to vote in the democratic process.

Once again, I agree.

Doge Land wrote:The quality of proposals has taken a huge drop lately. Yeah no, just because some crap proposal hit the voting floor in the SC (and got stomped accordingly) doesn't mean you can make some 2-liner repeal and expect it to pass.

I need more than one reason, or maybe I'm just bored and want to see some proposal die on the voting floor

  1. Have you seen the comments of the Human Rights Committee that I reposted on my proposal thread?

  2. Do you believe that Repeal "Right to Self-defense" or Repeal "Sexual Privacy Act" were "crap proposals?" If so, why? If not, why not and why is my proposal crappier? :P

via The South Pacific

The United Protectorate of Tepertopia

Repeal "Voting Equality for Freed Inmates"

Present

Prisoners should be allowed to vote for their political representatives just like any other citizen, and the repeal target currently prevents the WA from passing a resolution to this effect, which is a solid-enough argument for repeal in my eyes. Nonetheless, I'm not the biggest fan of the proposed replacement in its current form, and thus not really comfortable with supporting this repeal (which would strike the protections for ex-inmates the original resolution already provided, possibly for a longer period of time should the replacement fail at vote) at this time, without a promising replacement ready for submission - contrary to repeals, which (as Tinhampton has pointed out) may indeed argue their case convincingly in very few words, regular legislation should consist of more than a couple of lines, in order to be able to properly and thoroughly address a topic without leaving sneakily exploitable loopholes.

via The South Pacific

The Public Liability CorpoNation of Corporatist Union

Tepertopia wrote:...I'm not the biggest fan of the proposed replacement in its current form, and thus not really comfortable with supporting this repeal [...] without a promising replacement ready for submission - contrary to repeals, which (as Tinhampton has pointed out) may indeed argue their case convincingly in very few words, regular legislation should consist of more than a couple of lines, in order to be able to properly and thoroughly address a topic without leaving sneakily exploitable loopholes.

Where are the "sneakily exploitable loopholes" in my proposed replacement, the full text of which is reproduced below?

    Believing that those member states which choose to hold democratic elections should ensure that all eligible people can take part in those elections, no matter their circumstances, the General Assembly hereby:
    1. requires members to ensure that no person within their jurisdiction is prevented (or otherwise unduly restricted) from voting in a election for public office simply because they currently are, or have previously been, imprisoned as punishment for a crime, and

    2. clarifies that Article a does not require elections for public office to be organised in any member state.



via The South Pacific

The Mighty Foundation of Concrete Slab

Corporatist Union wrote:This is The Self-Administrative City of Tinhampton-snip-

This isn't the place for rebuttals. Please do so on TSP's rmb or the discord. All that happens here is nations casting their vote

The South Pacifican Government of Office of WA Legislation

Vote on proposal Reducing Microplastics has been ended.

Result:
For: 13
Against: 0

OWL recommendation: For

Link:

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'Freedom of Dress'
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Background Information

Proposal title: 'Freedom of Dress'
Author: Tinhampton
Purpose: To reserve the question of whether to permit clothing to the individual member states and guarantee citizens of such non-nudist states a right to dress freely provided they cover body parts considered greatly private and don't impersonate officials.

Links


Vote .Against.
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The Office's Analysis

Seeking to outlaw arbitrary and discriminatory clothing guidelines for member states' citizens - in itself an admirable goal -, the at-vote resolution "Freedom of Dress" carries a number of problems that ultimately render it unfit for passage by the General Assembly. The point brought up most often is the incredibly marginal issue being legislated on - clothing-based discrimination could just as well be addressed by individual member states themselves in accordance with extant, broader WA law against discrimination. Furthermore, concerns have been raised regarding the wording of clause a, allowing member states to force their citizens to be nude - ultimately defeating the proposal's goal of allowing every individual to dress freely from state interference. Thus, OWL recommends a vote AGAINST the at-vote resolution, "Freedom of Dress".

Supplementary Opinions
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FOR | AGAINST
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For

From TSP Citizens

Osheiga is a citizen of the South Pacific.

Osheiga wrote:Our WA delegation agrees that clause A is a questionable inclusion due to forced nudity being fundamentally against what the rest of the proposal is attempting to accomplish. However, having the proposal passed regardless does more good than harm by increasing and protecting freedom of expression for citizens of countries that do not have enforced nudity laws (which, as far as the Osheigan delegation is aware, is a comfortable majority of WA member nations).

The Langburn Islands is a legislator of the South Pacific.

The Langburn Islands wrote:Freedom of expression is one of the most fundamental rights of any liberal democracy. This proposal will ensure that this essential right is protected and ensure that individual citizens of all nations are free to live without fear of totalitarian intrusion into how they choose to express themselves through clothing.

From the World

Cameroi is a resident of Forest. They posted on the NS forums:

Cameroi wrote:so if i'm reading this right, no nation, being a member state at any rate, would be allowed to tell anyone when to wear or not wear.

seems mostly harmless and basically defending what ought to be a natural right for individuals to wear or not wear whatever they felt like, whatever nation they lived in.

the only objection i can think of would be an aesthetic one, which is a matter of personal taste.

i would agree that the world assembly likely has more pressing matters, but this does seem to harmlessly occupy its members time.

Against

From TSP Citizens

Tepertopia is a Deputy Chair of the South Pacific and the Director of OWL.

Tepertopia wrote:Aside from this being a rather peculiar topic which I'm not sure about even being an issue of international concern, I'm not a fan of clause a in its current form, as it's doing exactly the opposite of what the proposal promises: If a member state decides to mandate nudism (doesn't permit the wearing of clothes as granted by this clause), I don't really think their citizens possess any freedom of dress anymore.

Aumeltopia is a former Delegate of the South Pacific and a member of OWL senior staff.

Aumeltopia wrote:This just doesn't strike me as an issue the WA needs to have anything to do with.

The Kies is a citizen of the South Pacific.

The Kies wrote:The WA should not decide the topic of clothing for member nations. It is an outrage and overreach should this resolution be passed. While freedom of expression should be held sacred, this resolution subverts this freedom with clause A. It is well-intentioned, yet poorly written.

From the World

Astrobolt is a Knight of TITO, the military of 10000 Islands. On XKI's forums, they wrote:

Astrobolt wrote:I'm opposed to this proposal. Clause A allows member states to force individuals to go nude. This exception goes against the goal of the proposal, to allow individuals to wear what they wish. Moreover, the author has failed to provide any adequate justification for this exception.

Barfleur is a citizen of the East Pacific. They argued on the NS forums:

Barfleur wrote:"While we understand and respect the right of individuals to freely express themselves through clothing, we do not believe this to be an issue of international concern. But should this proposal pass, well, it's not like our nation isn't already in compliance."



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via The South Pacific

The United Protectorate of Tepertopia

Corporatist Union wrote:Where are the "sneakily exploitable loopholes" in my proposed replacement, the full text of which is reproduced below?

    Believing that those member states which choose to hold democratic elections should ensure that all eligible people can take part in those elections, no matter their circumstances, the General Assembly hereby:
    1. requires members to ensure that no person within their jurisdiction is prevented (or otherwise unduly restricted) from voting in a election for public office simply because they currently are, or have previously been, imprisoned as punishment for a crime, and

    2. clarifies that Article a does not require elections for public office to be organised in any member state.

I'm not really an avid loophole-hunter - I meant that more in a general sense, as the shorter a proposal is, the less ground it can cover, and the more likely it is that due to some technicality emerging from lacking details a nation not willing to comply with the intended spirit of the law can instead creatively comply with the hard letter.

But for example here - where the repeal target banned "criminal activity" in general from being invoked as justification for excluding ex-inmates from the right to vote (thus including the mere conviction), your proposed replacement only refers to imprisonment - the sentence, not the conviction - in this capacity. I think that could be seen as dropping those original protections from discrimination on the grounds of one's criminal record in general. That would mean a nation could then theoretically strip prisoners of their suffrage because they've been convicted of a crime - invoking the conviction - and not because they're imprisoned for that crime - the sentence. Even if we interpret the letter of the law more broadly, in its current form it would be completely legal to exclude, say, a pickpocket from the right to vote because they've been convicted and fined and therefore cannot ever possibly become an upstanding citizen again - this would have been illegal under the repeal target as it invoked past criminal activity, but not so with your replacement, as it wouldn't invoke them being/having been imprisoned as reason.
(Also I believe preambles should be a bit longer than a single line, but that's more of a personal thing.)

via The South Pacific

The Not Not Republic of Not Austria

Repeal "Voting Equality for Freed Inmates"

For

via The South Pacific

The Republic of Podunkia

Repeal "Voting Equality for Freed Inmates"

Present

I agree with The United Protectorate of Tepertopia and others that the currently suggested replacement proposal needs to be a bit more fleshed out. I support voting rights for inmates and formerly incarcerated persons, so I would not want to repeal the protection that exists for formerly incarcerated persons under the current resolution without a strong replacement waiting and ready to go. Will wait to see if the author is receptive to feedback and makes any changes. :)

The South Pacifican Government of Office of WA Legislation

NEW SECURITY COUNCIL PROPOSAL DISCUSSION AND VOTE
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Title: Commend The Atlae Isles
Author: Zukchiva (co-authored by Libertanny)
Purpose: To honor The Atlae Isles' achievements, which generally include Issues-authoring and prominent participation in R/D, and in particular their service to TEP such as reviving the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army or building TEP's regional card program, with a shiny badge of commendation.

Zukchiva wrote:The Security Council,

Recognizing that The Atlae Isles (or Atlae) is a diligent, hard-working, and determined nation which has performed admirable deeds in the past few years.

Praising Atlae’s initiative in revealing pertinent and relevant issues for national governments across the globe to deliberate upon, including:

  • Issue #752 (nicknamed “The Immortal Cells of Mrs. Gratwick”), in which national leaders are called to consider the ethical implications of using the cells from a dead citizen to create a medical treatment for cancer;

  • Issue #816 (nicknamed “A Hot Topic”), where national leaders are asked to deliberate on the benefits of using controlled fires to prevent larger fires from becoming widespread;

  • Issue #967 (nicknamed “Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics”), an issue that asks leaders to consider fiercely combating misinformation after pizza is labelled as a healthy food in an obscure scientific journal.

Admiring the work of Atlae as the Overseeing Officer of the Eastern Pacific Sovereign Army (EPSA), where the nation:

  • Revived the army and restored it to a capable operational capacity it last achieved in 2014;

  • Engaged the EPSA in countless joint operations with other regional militaries, deepening fruitful relations between The East Pacific and many of its allies such as the South Pacific, The North Pacific, Thaecia, and Europeia;

  • Trained newcomers to become future army officers, where these officers can now conduct their own operations, train underlings, and capably lead the Army- thanks to Atlae’s training.

Lauding Atlae’s service as Commander of the Phoenix Flock Fleet (South Pacific liberation forces) in 2020, where it recruited dozens of residents from The East Pacific, kept liberation infrastructure organized, assisted in timing military movement, and thus heavily contributed to the attempted liberation of South Pacific being one of the largest liberation attempts in modern history.

Applauding Atlae’s monumental work within The East Pacific’s international artwork organization (The Eastern Association of Pacifican Ornamental Traders) where the nominee assisted in founding the Association, hosted multiple artwork collection events, mentored multiple nations in artwork collection and management, and ultimately helped The East Pacific to develop a tight-knit artwork community.

Admiring the nation’s work in curating the portraitures of nations in The East Pacific into two separately maintained galleries, hosted in Atlae's art districts of S1 TEP Collector and S2 TEP Collector. These galleries have allowed East Pacifican nations to easily access the diverse artworks of their regionmates.

Noticing the nominee’s contributions to The East Pacific, which further prove the nation’s perseverance and willingness to serve for the greater good of a community, as:

  • Chief Officer of Justice, where it brought up multiple legal questions to the Conclave for legal clarifications, brought suspected nations to trial before the regional court, and otherwise diligently labored to improve and address ambiguity within the region’s laws where at all possible;

  • Deputy Minister of Information, where the nominee wrote high quality articles for the Eastern Pacific News Service (13% of all EPNS articles since 2019), mentored past and present Editors of the Service (such as Libertanny), and assisted new Editors (such as Tretrid and Eunopiar) in their tasks;

  • Magister for over 2 years, where it tirelessly debated Eastern Pacific law and constantly questioned executive officials and nominees to hold the government accountable, as well as facilitating debate and faithfully maintaining records for future reference as Provost;

  • Senior Diplomat of Foreign Affairs, where it advised Delegate Libertanny on how to navigate numerous foreign affairs crises, guided and oversaw the work of Eastern Pacifican ambassadors, and overall worked to improve The East Pacific’s relations with foreign regions;

Revering the nominee’s steadfast and consistent mentorship, as it continually introduced new nations to The East Pacific’s regional government and politics, with many of these nations becoming regional leaders thanks to the nominee’s extensive guidance. Examples of these nations include Libertanny (former Delegate), Eastern Alksearia (current Senior Diplomat), and Catiania (current EPSA Officer).

Believing that Atlae, through its contributions to The East Pacific and its assistance to foreign nations and regions, is an exemplary nation that embodies hard work and resilience.

Hereby commends The Atlae Isles.

View submitted proposal | View on-site drafting thread

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Please discuss and vote on how regional nations and the Delegate should vote on this proposal.
Always remember to include the name of the resolution you are talking about in your posts to avoid confusion!

Click here to read voting instructions (Please do this if you have never voted before!)

via The South Pacific

The Commonwealth of The Langburn Islands

Commend The Atlae Isles

Against

Yet another pointless commendation for yet another feederite who no one outside the East Pacific has heard of. SC commendations should go to nations that actually deserve them.

via The South Pacific

The Mighty Foundation of Concrete Slab

Commend The Atlae Isles

For

Good ambassador from The Langburn Islands, I'm curious as to what requirements nations must meet in order to earn a commendation under your standards. The Atlae Isles is a three-time issues author and, if the proposal is true, has helped to strengthen ties between the militaries of the South Pacific and The East Pacific. Furthermore, The Atlae Isles played a pivotal role in the defense of South Pacific, a region with a special place in my heart. The delegation from Concrete Slab is proud to cast a For vote.

Post self-deleted by Northern Cambridge.



via The South Pacific

The Emirate of Northern Cambridge

Commend The Atlae Isles

For

I believe the acts of this Nation should be awarded. They reviewed the Army. That says enough for me The Duke of Cambridge is proud to cast a for vote for this proposal.

via The South Pacific

The Not Not Republic of Not Austria

Commend The Atlae Isles

For

This proposal is both well researched and well deserved. I don't see any reason why Atlae would be undeserving of a commendation.

via The South Pacific

The Democratic States of Anatasha

Commend The Atlae Isles

For

via The South Pacific

The King of the Ferns of Doge Land

Commend The Atlae Isles

For

Plenty of things here to make me vote for.

via The South Pacific

The Stick Like Stickpire of The Stickmin Empire

Commend The Atlae Isles

For

Long, check. Well researched, check. Pear pressure, check. Deserved, check.

via The South Pacific

The Republic of SouthernSanity

Commend The Atlae Isles

Non-WA For

Well written draft to Commend a long-time region builder in a close ally of the Coalition. Atlae has extensive contributions in multiple areas of The East Pacific including military, foreign affairs, culture, mentorship, cards, and more. Further, it's in the foreign affairs interests of the Coalition to support Commendations for prominent members of long-time allies, especially in the East.

The Langburn Islands wrote:Commend The Atlae Isles

Against

Yet another pointless commendation for yet another feederite who no one outside the East Pacific has heard of. SC commendations should go to nations that actually deserve them.

I don't agree with this. First of all, I think Atlae is pretty well known outside of TEP in the military gameplay sphere and in the cards sphere. Second of all, using a "one region's contributions" standard for a Commendation is bad because it proactively encourages floating cosmopolitanism and punishes people who have intensively dedicated themselves to building one specific region, which is what Atlae has done for the most part. You shouldn't have to have changed allegiances 5 times to be Commended, you should have to demonstrate depth of contributions somewhere.

via The South Pacific

The Super Swifty of Imperial Dodo

Commend The Atlae Isles

For

All the work that Atlae has done throughout NationStates, makes him well worthy of a Commendation. Whether it's with work in the realm of cards leading the TEP Card Program, or whether it's his work in the realm of R/D re-storing the East Pacific Sovereign Army and strengthening ties with other large military orgs, or for his work in the Issues community authoring 3 Issues. Furthermore, he is also a fantastic person to be around. Always kind and generous, and never really getting mad at people, and always doing their best to try to help improve and assist the overall NationStates community. Atlae 200% deserves this.

via The South Pacific

The Culture Blossom Commonwealth of North Prarie

Commend The Atlae Isles

For

While I do think Atlae is bordering on commend-worthy, this is a good proposal that highlights their accomplishments well. I also think that their command of the Phoenix Flock Fleet and the incredible turnout they got for it from TEP adds a lot to this Commend.
Ultimately - for.

The South Pacifican Government of Office of WA Legislation

To clear up the argument between Concrete Slab and Corporatist Union/Tinhampton over the usage of this RMB:

While one goal of OWL is of course to determine the South Pacific's initial stance on proposals, and thus voting naturally is a prime purpose of this RMB, we think that, as long as conducted orderly, a more fleshed-out debate about a given proposal - including criticizing others' arguments - only benefits this and helps regional nations make up their minds in an informed way. As the Discussion/Voting Instructions note, all South Pacifican nations may post their thoughts on the Voting Center RMB, so this would also cover non-voting nations participating in the debate, as Tinhampton did.

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