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LodgedFromMessages


via Augustin Alliance

The Eministrator of Emiline

Free-Reorganized-States wrote:-snip-

This is a game. I'm allowed to maintain a standard for the Alliance.

Socialist Platypus wrote:August would have swooped in long ago and just make things that way.
And it isn't the case, so it just won't happen.

I will also add that I would never do anything detrimental to August or his Alliance. He has entrusted me with my position as his right hand because he knows this. I'm not foolish as to throw away the trust I have from my longtime friend and mentor.

Post self-deleted by Kinshinsoukan.



Kinshinsoukan

Emiline wrote:This is a game. I'm allowed to maintain a standard for the Alliance.

May I ask which depictions are banned exactly? Since I’m using the symbol that Japan used during WWII (in different colors and without the communist sign in the middle) I‘m concerned that I need to change my flag

The Enlightenment Zionist nation of Free-Reorganized-States

Socialist Platypus wrote:

If you want a short on why this policy was implemented it is to stop being a potential home for people who might be in support of those movements, of which the flag got banned. It's a general way of telling people that those are unwelcomed.

Thank you very much, that's specifically what I wanted.

Define your terms, consider your goals, and enforce evenly.
Without doing these when implementing censorship, you'll end up like Twitter, and nobody wants that.

Authoritarianism is sometimes necessary, I understand that as much as anyone, but it's not something to take lightly.

Galliadurm and Kinshinsoukan

Show

Post by Vioxa suppressed by Emiline.

Show

Post by Kinshinsoukan suppressed by Emiline.



The Unified Nations of Sri Malawi

Great Koryeo wrote:https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/410255926239428609/973445973458190356/Fascist_Symbols_AA_Ban.pdf

It's a little off to say that FET/Franco was really fascist, he's more just an old-school dictator that was friendly with a Fascist.

and

Tōhōka should be Tōhōkai

The Enlightenment Zionist nation of Free-Reorganized-States

Sri Malawi wrote:It's a little off to say that FET/Franco was really fascist, he's more just an old-school dictator that was friendly with a Fascist.

and

Tōhōka should be Tōhōkai

That's what defining terms is for, so you can moderate fairly.



via Augustin Alliance

The Eministrator of Emiline

Kinshinsoukan wrote:May I ask which depictions are banned exactly? Since I’m using the symbol that Japan used during WWII (in different colors and without the communist sign in the middle) I‘m concerned that I need to change my flag

Nothing, yet. Please stop distributing something I've not officially published yet and am still working on.

Kinshinsoukan

Emiline wrote:Nothing, yet. Please stop distributing something I've not officially published yet.

Except I‘m not the one who first distributed it. Have a look again and complain to the right one

via Augustin Alliance

The Eministrator of Emiline

Sri Malawi wrote:It's a little off to say that FET/Franco was really fascist, he's more just an old-school dictator that was friendly with a Fascist.

and

Tōhōka should be Tōhōkai

Yes it should be. Thanks for pointing out the typo the last letter must have gotten knocked off when I pasted the table code.

The Enlightenment Zionist nation of Free-Reorganized-States

Emiline wrote:Nothing, yet. Please stop distributing something I've not officially published yet.

To be fair I'm pretty sure that it's normal to protest laws that are in the process of being enacted.

Kinshinsoukan



via Augustin Alliance

The Eministrator of Emiline

Kinshinsoukan wrote:Except I‘m not the one who first distributed it. Have a look again and complain to the right one

I'm not complaining. I'm requesting it from all. Regardless of who does it first.



via Augustin Alliance

The Eministrator of Emiline

Free-Reorganized-States wrote:To be fair I'm pretty sure that it's normal to protest laws that are in the process of being enacted.

By all means you can talk about it and in the future maybe you can come and talk to me about it beforehand. You talk a lot about what I should and shouldn't do when I consider thinfs but did you actually stop and ask me first? Just little miffed right now that you're throwing a lot of assumptions as to my line of reasoning.

As I said this is a game and I'm allowed to hpld a standard to uphold the safety and integrity of the Alliance. We'd be singing a different tune if this was the real world and regarding actual law and government but this is a browser game.

via Karma

The Glorious Technocratic State of Imperium of Josh

Free-Reorganized-States wrote:To be fair I'm pretty sure that it's normal to protest laws that are in the process of being enacted.

pff

Kinshinsoukan

Emiline wrote:I'm not complaining. I'm requesting it from all. Regardless of who does it first.

Then make sure you tag everyone involved and not just one that you pick out. Btw if it is not ready then don’t publish it. Keep it as Word Document or sth on your device and publish it when it’s ready. Otherwise we should be free to use it. Or at least specifically state it in the dispatch. Really isn’t that hard

via Augustin Alliance

The Eministrator of Emiline

Kinshinsoukan wrote:Then make sure you tag everyone involved and not just one that you pick out. Btw if it is not ready then don’t publish it. Keep it as Word Document or sth on your device and publish it when it’s ready. Otherwise we should be free to use it. Or at least specifically state it in the dispatch. Really isn’t that hard

It says in the title "-work in progress-". I thought that was a pretty clear indicator.



Kinshinsoukan

Emiline wrote:It says in the title "-work in progress-". I thought that was a pretty clear indicator.

Work in progress doesn’t mean Do not distribute

Fabiniku



via Augustin Alliance

The Eministrator of Emiline

Kinshinsoukan wrote:Work in progress doesn’t mean Do not distribute

Feel like you moved the goal posts a little there.

Regardless I'll fill you all in a little bit. Allowing said groups, even their symbols, can serve as an unintentional dog whistle and in the past we've had bigots try to find safe harbor in our communities. Just through my initial sweep of Conch Kingdom I found people using symbols of Strasserism, Nazism, Fascism, and the likes. Almost like the way you outwardly market your region does matter. I personally don't tolerate racists and genociders and it will be clear that bigots have no place in the alliance. I am not interested in platforming hate speech and groups that wish harm, oppression, and death in their creed in our alliance. I doubt anyone wants to make the case to me that I should allow nazis and white supremacists here because you know as well as I do that we don't want those here.

I think you misunderstand when I say "don't distribute it". I say this as a "hey. Its not enforced yet so don't be passing it around like it's an official rule." By all means, look at it, talk bout it. This dispatch is a list I am putting together which will serve as a list to the official AA policy, which shall be posted on our policy list on our master dispatch, when done. Until then it is not in force. Once it does go into force the entire alliance will be notified and then it shall be enforced.

The Enlightenment Zionist nation of Free-Reorganized-States

Emiline wrote:By all means you can talk about it and in the future maybe you can come and talk to me about it beforehand. You talk a lot about what I should and shouldn't do when I consider thinfs but did you actually stop and ask me first? Just little miffed right now that you're throwing a lot of assumptions as to my line of reasoning.

As I said this is a game and I'm allowed to hpld a standard to uphold the safety and integrity of the Alliance. We'd be singing a different tune if this was the real world and regarding actual law and government but this is a browser game.

Mate what I said was universal, the only thing that would invalidate it, is if you were already doing it.

Even if it's not done yet, you really shouldn't start picking out groups without defining your terms at least.

My criticism is specific to the process of your rule, not your intentions, or even your implementation.

If my assumptions are incorrect in that regard, you can just tell me, and it will likely ease concerns for more than just me.



via Augustin Alliance

The Eministrator of Emiline

Free-Reorganized-States wrote:Mate what I said was universal, the only thing that would invalidate it, is if you were already doing it.

Even if it's not done yet, you really shouldn't start picking out groups without defining your terms at least.

My criticism is specific to the process of your rule, not your intentions, or even your implementation.

If my assumptions are incorrect in that regard, you can just tell me, and it will likely ease concerns for more than just me.

I have to disagree slightly. There is a clear difference between a government encroaching on the rights of citizenship and a private citizen, existing on a private game, mananging their own community. By all means you can shoot me a telegram or message me on discord at Emiline#7505 with questions, comments, and concerns.

Kinshinsoukan

Emiline wrote:Feel like you moved the goal posts a little there.

Regardless I'll fill you all in a little bit. Allowing said groups, even their symbols, can serve as an unintentional dog whistle and in the past we've had bigots try to find safe harbor in our communities. Just through my initial sweep of Conch Kingdom I found people using symbols of Strasserism, Nazism, Fascism, and the likes. Almost like the way you outwardly market your region does matter. I personally don't tolerate racists and genociders and it will be clear that bigots have no place in the alliance. I am not interested in platforming hate speech and groups that wish harm, oppression, and death in their creed in our alliance. I doubt anyone wants to make the case to me that I should allow nazis and white supremacists here because you know as well as I do that we don't want those here.

I think you misunderstand when I say "don't distribute it". I say this as a "hey. Its not enforced yet so don't be passing it around like it's an official rule." By all means, look at it, talk bout it. This dispatch is a list I am putting together which will serve as a list to the official AA policy, which shall be posted on our policy list on our master dispatch, when done. Until then it is not in force. Once it does go into force the entire alliance will be notified and then it shall be enforced.

I didn’t move the goalposts anywhere. You don’t want people distributing it then clearly state that in the dispatch or don’t publish it anywhere. That’s all I said. Didn’t change whatsoever.
„Bigots have no place in the alliance“ then that goes for anyone that is fanatic about sth. If you keep that line then CK will only be allowing democracies someday. Non-religious democracies might I add. Also the wording you have remind of the „bigots“ on Twitter or extreme left in general. Doesn’t really help making a point. Keep it more objective without words like „bigots“ as Platypus is doing it. Otherwise you just push whatever agenda you have onto someone, not really allowing any good discussion to evolve as it them gets fueled by emotions.

Then I don’t see that suppressing the posts was justified. Suppress your own posts as you double posted which goes against a rule.

The Enlightenment Zionist nation of Free-Reorganized-States

Emiline wrote:I have to disagree slightly. There is a clear difference between a government encroaching on the rights of citizenship and a private citizen, existing on a private game, mananging their own community. By all means you can shoot me a telegram or message me on discord at Emiline#7505 with questions, comments, and concerns.

Personally I think that the moral responsibilities exist just the same, games just have lower stakes.

I also think that you would only benefit from using the guide to responsible censorship, but in the end I can only voice my opinion.

Kinshinsoukan



via Augustin Alliance

The Eministrator of Emiline

Free-Reorganized-States wrote:Personally I think that the moral responsibilities exist just the same, games just have lower stakes.

I also think that you would only benefit from using the guide to responsible censorship, but in the end I can only voice my opinion.

By all means. Im still wanting to hear as to why should allow Nazis, white supremacists, and racists as these are the groups I have tapped for censorship. I understand your concern but on the flipside I have a moral responsibility to not platform these viewpoints and to protect the members of the alliance from them.

The Enlightenment Zionist nation of Free-Reorganized-States

Emiline wrote:By all means. Im still wanting to hear as to why should allow Nazis, white supremacists, and racists as these are the groups I have tapped for censorship. I understand your concern but on the flipside I have a moral responsibility to not platform these viewpoints and to protect the members of the alliance from them.

Because as Kinshinsoukan pointed out, hate is subjective.

It's entirely possible in defining your terms that some of the groups you included don't actually fit your description, or alternatively that some of you are in violation of your own rules.

That kind of introspection is important, and it ensures that you're only targeting groups you intend to.

Maybe you're entirely right in your assessment, but that's less likely than you might think.

If you don't define your terms you start off banning racists, then end up banning nationalists, then next thing you know you're lumping in libertarians with Hitler.
It might seem absurd, but it's already happened all over the place.

For example just a start:

How about you define racist as any group whose stated goal is to implement authoritarian policy, in the name of a race based identitarian agenda?

The issue is with the subjective potential of what is and isn't considered racist.

Kinshinsoukan

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