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Macari

Sail Nation wrote:I feel that Seas's idea will give too much power to the executive - I feel that in regions with direct democracy people tend to vote 'for' without properly evaluating whether or not it's a good idea. I prefer a HoC, as it is usually a bit more professional, and keeping executive powers and legislative powers somewhat separate is great for 'checks and balances'.

I also think that it is a problem that all legislative power rests with the cabinet, as they and they only can make polls and therefore create laws etc. Again, I'm happy to have referendums to confirm constitutional amendments, and at the most extreme, a region-wide lower house with everyone in it, but still having the HoC as the upper house who must initiate the process of passing laws.

Bicameral legislature ftw!

The Thalassocracy of Seven Seas

Sail Nation wrote:I feel that Seas's idea will give too much power to the executive - I feel that in regions with direct democracy people tend to vote 'for' without properly evaluating whether or not it's a good idea. I prefer a HoC, as it is usually a bit more professional, and keeping executive powers and legislative powers somewhat separate is great for 'checks and balances'.

I also think that it is a problem that all legislative power rests with the cabinet, as they and they only can make polls and therefore create laws etc. Again, I'm happy to have referendums to confirm constitutional amendments, and at the most extreme, a region-wide lower house with everyone in it, but still having the HoC as the upper house who must initiate the process of passing laws.

Oh, I should have mentioned that any citizen can make a poll proposing anything within the bounds of our law.

I'm not done yet.

via Karma

The Rescue Ranger of New Excalibus

Skundi wrote:So Iím just trying to understand Excalís idea of meritocracy and Iím just trying to think about how we would put it in place if it became our method. I understands that itís about merit, but I guess iím just being dumb, because iím confused about it a lot. Nothing against Excalís ideas, iím just curious, but how would it work? New Excalibus, can you give me a bit of an example of how it would be implemented in the region?

Also, I have grown to the idea of a citizens assembly becoming the legislature, that could work. I feel like keeping the executive and the cabinet though, as it is important to have set secretaries focusing on specific things

Alright, Iím just going to summarize Karmaís constitution;
Anyone who joins the region is a resident, and can join some ministries as well as interact within the region. But if they want to get into serious government work like participating in the legislature and becoming a cabinet member, they have to undergo a process of, well, Karma calls it Enlightenment. It boils down to doing something good and positive for oneís region.
I probably got some facts wrong; youíd have to check with Alti if you wanted the full explanation of it, but thatís a fairly basic summary for ya.

Obviously youíd have to cut a lot of stuff if you wanted to make this type of meritocracy work in Lorania, but I think the concept of ďdo something for your region and you may serve it furtherĒ is pretty damn good and something that should be adopted.

Joke level: 0%.

The Confederacy of Ogliacia

Macari wrote:Bicameral legislature ftw!

Eww no, that would take too long for laws to pass. The current HoC system is fine as it is.

New Excalibus wrote:Undemocratic Nonsense

Eww no, that would lead to Oligarchy (rule of the few). You could end up with unpopular people in charge, which is something that democracy prevents.

The Thalassocracy of Seven Seas

What if we just had an elected General Assembly (of, say, 5 nations), where there isn't one leader but we just vote to make big decisions?

The Confederacy of Ogliacia

Seven Seas wrote:What if we just had an elected General Assembly (of, say, 5 nations), where there isn't one leader but we just vote to make big decisions?

Why are people becoming so radical all of a sudden? There's no need to have a second legislature that can't be filled, and would take far too long to pass new laws.

The Thalassocracy of Seven Seas

Ogliacia wrote:Why are people becoming so radical all of a sudden? There's no need to have a second legislature that can't be filled, and would take far too long to pass new laws.

No, I mean no other government/legislature other than a General Assembly. We have seen that our current system is quite clunky and doesn't cover all that it needs to.

via Karma

The Rescue Ranger of New Excalibus

Ogliacia wrote:Eww no, that would take too long for laws to pass. The current HoC system is fine as it is.

Eww no, that would lead to Oligarchy (rule of the few). You could end up with unpopular people in charge, which is something that democracy prevents.

Actually, the enlightenment system prevents generally uncool people who wonít put in any effort from getting into an office. Since they have to, yíknow, do something, it makes it so no lazy joe schmoe can get into office.
Also, making politics about popularity is bad for the health of a region.

via Karma

The Rescue Ranger of New Excalibus

Ogliacia wrote:Why are people becoming so radical all of a sudden? There's no need to have a second legislature that can't be filled, and would take far too long to pass new laws.

Loraniaís at a crossroads. People are picking lanes.

The Confederacy of Ogliacia

Seven Seas wrote:No, I mean no other government/legislature other than a General Assembly. We have seen that our current system is quite clunky and doesn't cover all that it needs to.

How is it 'clunky'?

New Excalibus wrote:Actually, the enlightenment system prevents generally uncool people who wonít put in any effort from getting into an office. Since they have to, yíknow, do something, it makes it so no lazy joe schmoe can get into office.
Also, making politics about popularity is bad for the health of a region.

Why I don't support meritocracy:

  • The ruling few control policies and legislation, and end up with much more power than the rest of the region.

  • As the ruling few gain more expertise, they tend to exclude outsiders, and only include those who share their own views.

  • It prevents new perspectives and diversity.

  • When people feel they can't join the ruling few, they may no longer feel compelled to follow the rules set by the ruling few, leading to coups, and other chaotic events.

Macari

via Karma

The Rescue Ranger of New Excalibus

Ogliacia wrote:How is it 'clunky'?
Why I don't support meritocracy:
  • The ruling few control policies and legislation, and end up with much more power than the rest of the region.

  • As the ruling few gain more expertise, they tend to exclude outsiders, and only include those who share their own views.

  • It prevents new perspectives and diversity.

  • When people feel they can't join the ruling few, they may no longer feel compelled to follow the rules set by the ruling few, leading to coups, and other chaotic events.

iím too tired to argue about this

The Confederacy of Ogliacia

New Excalibus wrote:iím too tired to argue about this

To be honest, we're all too tired to argue. Let's all just calm down, and get level headed. We all need a rest from the 'Puet Event', which got us all running around like headless chickens, and sparked radical thinking in our heads. The current Loranian system isn't as bad as it seems, it just needs a few bills passed (criminal code and voting system change). So everyone, let's stop overreacting, and let's take a 24 hour break from intense political arguing.

via Karma

The Rescue Ranger of New Excalibus

Ogliacia wrote:To be honest, we're all too tired to argue. Let's all just calm down, and get level headed. We all need a rest from the 'Puet Event', which got us all running around like headless chickens, and sparked radical thinking in our heads. The current Loranian system isn't as bad as it seems, it just needs a few bills passed (criminal code and voting system change). So everyone, let's stop overreacting, and let's take a 24 hour break from intense political arguing.

no, wait thatís not the point- never mind.



The Confederacy of Ogliacia

I have an old idea (not a new one) to fix the Justice System:

1. Amend the Regional Court Procedures Act, so that only non-emergency cases (cases that don't require a quick response) go to the Courthouse.

2. Use the 'Lightning Trail' System for emergency cases (cases that require a quick response).

Lightning Trial System:
1. Citizen TGs CJ of Emergency crime, including the offending nation, the crime commited, and the evidence (in a dispatch - may be in picture format).
2. CJ decides verdict (Guilty or Not Guilty)
3. If Guilty - Punishes offending nation according the Criminal Code.
4. If Not Guilty - CJ takes no further action.

BTW, if you wish to criticise this idea, feel free to do so, but do it in a respectful and mannerly way (I don't want this to escalate into an argument).

Macari and Galactic Powers

Macari

Seven Seas wrote:Oh, I should have mentioned that any citizen can make a poll proposing anything within the bounds of our law.

I'm not done yet.

Thatís even worse lol

Macari

Ogliacia wrote:Eww no, that would take too long for laws to pass. The current HoC system is fine as it is.

Eww no, that would lead to Oligarchy (rule of the few). You could end up with unpopular people in charge, which is something that democracy prevents.

lol youíre right, weíre not big enough to handle 2 legislatures yet

The Friendly Nation of Matroyska

Macari wrote:lol youíre right, weíre not big enough to handle 2 legislatures yet

i love your enthusiasm but please remember that you can reply to several posts in one, so you donít have to double post. this helps make the rmb easier to read

Macari and Ogliacia

The Social Liberal Democracy of Sail Nation

Ogliacia wrote:I have an old idea (not a new one) to fix the Justice System:

1. Amend the Regional Court Procedures Act, so that only non-emergency cases (cases that don't require a quick response) go to the Courthouse.

2. Use the 'Lightning Trail' System for emergency cases (cases that require a quick response).

Lightning Trial System:
1. Citizen TGs CJ of Emergency crime, including the offending nation, the crime commited, and the evidence (in a dispatch - may be in picture format).
2. CJ decides verdict (Guilty or Not Guilty)
3. If Guilty - Punishes offending nation according the Criminal Code.
4. If Not Guilty - CJ takes no further action.

BTW, if you wish to criticise this idea, feel free to do so, but do it in a respectful and mannerly way (I don't want this to escalate into an argument).

I don't like the idea of 'lightening trials' - this was the sort of thing used during 'The Terror' in the French Revolution (at the point when France was undemocratic and guillotines with overused), and evening in Germany in the 1930s and 40s, as well as in North Korea to a certain extent. It shows a mark of undemocratic systems and almost always result in guilty verdicts as there is no defence.

We tried this before, and it didn't fix the problem of having a slow and inactive judiciary, as the CJ could still go inactive (the main problem during the Bio situation - as the RMB regulations didn't allow simple banjection at the time, I refused to banject anyone without the permission of the CJ, as that would be illegal and unconstitutional. Seas put Bio to a lightening trial, but it took weeks to progress anywhere due to inactivity on the part of the court).

I'm still against turning this into direct democracy. To an extent it can work on NS, but usually a legislature works better and this puts way too much power in the hands of the executive, and there is no 'ladder' for new citizens to use to work their way up to higher positions and learn the ropes of being in regional government.

Visedo







CONDEMNATION of LORANIA
-----


Read dispatch

Macari and Galactic Powers

The Thalassocracy of Seven Seas

Visedo wrote:






CONDEMNATION of LORANIA
-----


Read dispatch

Very funny. Now move along please.

The Kingdom of Tai Pei

Visedo wrote:






CONDEMNATION of LORANIA
-----


Read dispatch

Funny memes.

via Auctor

The Self-Administrative City of Tinhampton

Sail Nation wrote:I don't like the idea of 'lightening trials' [...]

Lightning Trials are also unconstitutional.

My original plans for the Basic Law of Thorossia did involve a legislature involving every citizen, as is the case in two unnamed GCRs, but this was not picked up on by Skundi for several reasons - not least because he objected to my definition of a citizen as a WA resident only :P

The Herbicide of 2-4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic Acid

Just founded New Lorania so TWC didnít nab it

The ☭☭☭☭☭☭ of Galactic Powers

Here's an idea:

Banana duck theocracy, abolish democracy

The Women can wear trousers too of Cousethii

Skundi issued a grudge against Turkic Union nine months ago simply because he was banned from the region by its founder, Qazaq Eli, for refusing their embassy request. I find it disturbing to note that he has not similarly issued a grudge against Montealba for concerning content allegedly hosted on its Discord server - content which surpasses the mere "pettiness" that he accused Qazaq Eli of demonstrating - instead merely issuing a statement of embassy cancellation.

Grudges should be issued consistently or not at all.

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